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5 April 2010

Moving to suit your age and values

 I received an email from a reader a day or so ago and I thought the answer might be of interest to others as well.  In part, the email asked:

"I have a few questions, my husband and I are in our 40's and have only one son left at home. We would like to change our home as it is a very small block although the house is a good size.We try and grow vegies and everything we can in-between the garden flowers and pots.We have an opportunity to buy a 5 acre property, but I am nervous I think it may be too big as we are getting older not younger and worry we won't manage our land when older? What motivated you to move to your plot and how large is it.? You and Hanno seem to manage very easily. I thought I'd ask you as your reasoning is always sound and very helpful in making our choice. I think a blog 1400 would suit me better as my hubby doesn't have too much free time with work."

We moved to our current home when Shane left school and Kerry was in his final year of school. We chose that time because we wanted to be closer to a university, potential employment, shopping and entertainment. This was a few years before we realised how toxic our lifestyle had become and then changed to a more gentle and slow life. Luckily for us, we bought our one acre piece of land a couple of years before the property boom and since then it has more than tripled in price. We were looking for a small simple brick house with a bit of land. What we got was that, plus a permanent creek wandering through remnant rainforest at the end of a one lane dead-end street. Bliss! Even though what we have is very simple, and the absolute opposite to what most people were buying then, when I walked on to this block of land, I thought I'd died and gone to heaven. The garden was in its original state, the house was dated and needed work, but I knew at the very second I saw the backyard, that this was where I wanted to live. I was 49 then, Hanno was 58.
This is our house as seen from the garden (click to enlarge). As you can see, we have a solar hot water system (right), skylights, whirlybirds (to extract hot air from the roof), as well as a TV satellite dish that was disconnected many years ago. 

Five acres would have been too much for us then and would be a worry for us now. We used to have the boys to help mow the lawns (it took just over three hours) but now Hanno breaks the job up into a number of sections. It's slower but it's easier that way. An acre gives us room for our house, chooks, a double work shed for Hanno, a garden shed, bush-house, water tanks, vegetable garden, fruit trees and a large wild garden at the front that hides us from the road. I agree with you, a smaller block would give you the best of both worlds - you'd have enough land to do what you want to do, spread out and have out-houses but you'd still be able to manage the work of a 1400 block for many years to come. If you bought the larger block would you be able to subdivide it and sell off what you don't want?
In the house, look for work areas that will support productivity and family areas that encourage closeness.

Make sure the house has enough of the right kind of spaces. Look for a large pantry and stockpile cupboard close together, a work room for your sewing and mending, a well laid out kitchen that will allow you to preserve/can your excess garden produce and a place to sit and shell peas or read. If you have money left over after the purchase, buy some things that will help you be sustainable. Water tanks to harvest rainwater from your roof will help you every day you garden, skylights will help you bring light to rooms without electricity, solar hot water or panels for the entire house would be ideal.
Our back verandah is set up most of the time for the work we do there - there is a spare washing machine that is hooked up to the rain water tank, we dry clothes there when it rains, the animals are fed there, the wheelbarrow waits, the hose is ready to be used.  But we have had the best parties there too.  I had my 50 birthday party on this verandah, surround by family, friends, flowers and a hundred flickering candles.

It sounds like you're already gardeners and plan on continuing with that so look for a warmish climate with good rainfall.  Check your local authorities for flood history and look up the weather statistics for the past few years.  Overall, you want to live in an area that will support the work you wish to do in your home - like keeping chickens and growing food.

Even though you're still in your 40s, now is the time to look 30 years ahead.  You want a house and land that will allow you to work it easily while your husband is still working outside the home, you want a house that will be easy for you to live in for many years to come (our house has no stairs) and you want to know you're safe and sound and live well with your neighbours - go and meet the neighbours whenever you look at a new house.  You are paying for the location as much as for the building and land so know what you're buying into.  Ask every neighbour, and the people you're buying from, what the neighbours are like.  A bad neighbour is as concerning as a bad flood report - they will impact on your life in a negative way.  Steer clear.  You need to be fit and healthy to live as we do but as you age you also need access to medical facilities - make sure they aren't too far away.  You'll also need to be fairly close to a supermarket, butcher, and other primary producers if possible.

As we could afford additions, we put them in.  Here Hanno is adding a lattice on which we now grow passionfruit. The main reason we added the lattice was to shade our bedroom wall and windows from the afternoon sun.

Look for efficiency, comfort, warmth and productivity in a house, rather than luxury.  A coat of paint does wonders for most places.  See if you can save a few dollars by buying a smaller home on a large block, and spend the rest of your budget modifying the house to suit you both.  Hanno and I did that.  We knew many things weren't to our liking when we bought here, but when we moved in we took the time to change what we didn't like.  As money became available during the first few years of us being here, we kept adding those elements we wanted - like the skylights, tanks, gardens and fences.  Fences are important and if you're gardening and keeping chooks, a house cow or goats, you'll need good fences.  And not only to keep critters in, but to keep them out as well.  Make sure, when you do your changes, you use recycled materials if you can, they cut the cost considerably, and help to make your home more sustainable and earth-friendly.

Never underestimate the importance of fences. Here you can see the garden looking towards the back of the property and the chook house, below you can see the opposite view of the chook house view of the garden. Fencing will allow you to garden in peace and keep the chooks safe at the same time.

I highly recommend The New Complete Book of Self Sufficiency by John Seymour to you. He writes about and illustrates the ins and outs of a one acre small holding as well as a five acre one. You'll be surprised and pleased at his thoughts on the one acre plot - there is an abundance of crops, animals and fields of food for people and animals. It's really worth a read. I hope I've answered your question in a way that will help you look at things in a different way and will help you plan for your future. Please keep in touch and let me know what you decide on and how it goes when you eventually move.


  1. Thanks for todays post. Very insightful & given me food for thought about what i want to when i'm able to purchase my own home/land. Jeanette

  2. I'm only in my early 30s, but we are looking ahead to preparing for retirement even now. We are saving to be able to buy land and build a house later in life. We are also watching our grandparents age and only 4 are left (4 have died, 1 very recently). Unless you die suddenly at a younger age (say 70s or even 60s), you will reach an age when you can't do the work due to sickness, age, or other impairment. Seems like you need a plan for that, even if it is good relationships with your kids and grandkids so you can move in with them.

    Anyhoo, I'm glad to see you back blogging, Rhonda, and again I learned some things, and thought about some things. Thank you!

  3. Wonderful post Rhonda ~ thank you.

    We have 1/4 of an acre, and I think an acre would be fine, anymore than that would be too much for me to handle. I'm 61 and DH is 62. Even now, I'm not the same as I was even a couple of years ago. I have to ask for help with things that I used to could handle myself.

    Your posts are inspiring and encouraging.


  4. We have just moved to an acre of land and to be honest I don't think we could do with any more (hubby is 59 this year and I have just turned 56) - I'm sure it will be fine for him once it is a bit more established but at the moment he feels like the king of the unfinished job (but that is a whole other story!). There is always lots to do but as he is no longer working for wages, working around the house has become his full time job, sometimes a bit much so! I have thought ahead to the future and know that once it all becomes too much (for him and for me) that we will need to look at downsizing but that's okay, hopefully it will be many years away!

  5. 5 acres is possible to handle. Especially if you want some animals to tend. As long as you prepare well with your fencing. You keep maybe 1-2 acres as your house paddock and on the rest you can run some stock. Half cows or a few sheep. They keep the grass down and with a little knowledge with the breeding side of things you have fresh meat all year round. I guess though that also depends on where you live and your rainfall and whether the acres have good feed on them.

    In saying that I lived near a guy who had 5 acres, birds of all sort sheep and cows until he was well over 80. But just recently had to move to an aged care facility due to illness.

    Best of luck with your decision

  6. Hi my hubby and I are 43 and 48. We bought our 5acres when we first married 22 years ago.
    It is alot of work and we are not as young as we used to be, but having sectioned off the place into smaller areas we find by rotating the animals we have cut down on the amount of mowing we need to do.
    Then we only work on a small area at a time. that way we feel we have acheived somethin after a days work,and we dont feel too overwelmed.

  7. Wouldn't it be great if one could see around the corner. We bought our 1 acre block 10 years ago with the idea of building our house as soon as we were able to sell the one we were living in. We wanted to be debt free. So when the house finally sold after 4 years on the market we were able to pay off the mortgage and build the house with what was left, which wasn't very much. We were just able to get a small 3 bedroom with semi ensuite house and my superanuation that I had cashed in the day I turned 55 (it was losing money) allowed us to put a large shed up. In the past 6 years we have, like you Rhonda, added improvements. But if we had known how age/health was going to effect us we would not have bought a 1 acre block. A half acre or even 1/4 would have been ample. DH is finding this block to big to handle and I can't help him out there as old uncle athur has decided to being a permanent resident in my body. He is now talking about selling this place. I am 62 now and DH is 67.

  8. What a great post, Rhonda. You are so right about bad neighbors!!!

  9. We have 2.5 acres here at Corner Cottage. We have been here since December. We will be fencing a lot off and intend to have a few sheep for meat. The big fellow has just built a chook house and we are slowly working on the vege garden. You definitely wouldn't want to mowing 5 acres. Even on our ride on it takes 3 hours to do our lawns and edges in summer. I am in my late 50s and he is early 60s. It is doable once things are as you want them. We had good infrastructure but gardens etc were very run down and we have had to do a lot of rubbish removal. Summer is busy but winter is the time to do painting and the inside jobs. We have 2 elderly parents to look after now in our home so that keeps us on the hop as well. One thing I will say is don't miss out on this fabulous lifestyle of being self sufficient. Its a challenge but it is so rewarding and sure you'll get tired and you'll make mistakes but don't get to the end of your life and say '' I wish I'd tried that'' Most properties in Australia are increasing in value so you will always have something to sell if later you need to downsize. One other thing I will say is level block and no stairs I feel are a must. I would not be able to look after Dad if we had stairs and he is 88 and enjoying every minute with us. Sorry for rambling on!!!
    Blessings Gail

  10. WOW!!! I love your yard, and your garden. It is so nice to be able to say you actually reep what you sew right.

  11. Thank you, Rhonda. Your posts are always so informative.

  12. We have a 5 acre block, both in our 30's and raising a child. It's hard work and we only really use one acre. It's true what Rhonda (and others) have said about not needing much more land than that, especially as you age.

    Our vision however is to get as much of the land working for itself as possible, while we're still young. In 10 years time, I want to be able to potter around my garden - knowing that nature is doing the lion's share of work.

    I have the book Rhonda has recommended too, and I think John Seymour is brilliant. But I also like Jackie French's style of wilderness gardening too.

    You don't have to have a wilderness to use her philosophy either. You just have to pay attention to what nature is already doing in your backyard, and work your visions around that. "The Wilderness garden", is a book by Jackie French, I'd recommend too.

    My advice would be to only get the five acres, if you have the plan to match. Because it's impossible for two people to garden 5 acres on their own. There's just not enough hours in the day.

    However, if you plan to devote most of it to nature, or have a community body you can rely on to help garden it with you (ie: a body for people with disabilties, learning horticultural skills - or maybe Landcare) then it's possible to age gracefully on a larger plot of land.

    When we first bought our land, we were young enough not to worry about aging. Now we're here though, we're thinking about the future and how we can pass most of that work off - back to nature, so to speak LOL.

    Rhonda, I'm thinking of that lady you get your chickens from in Fernvale - I get chickens from her too. Haven't they got the most beautiful piece of paradise? There's just enough room to drive a car on their driveway - as it's utterly packed with trees and shrubs.

    I was amazed that two aging people could keep up to the work there. I want to be those people in 10, 20, 30 years time. I want to gorge myself on planting trees wherever I can fit them, in our relative youth. So we can sit under the shade of those trees and listen to the birds in our old age.

    I think it's possible to use 5 acres, but it's practical to have the vision to give most of it back to nature (the world's original and best gardener) as you age. :)

  13. A wonderfil post, Jean. We bought our farmhouse here in France, almost five years ago. We are still deep in the renovation work on the property so work on the outside has just been confined to mowing the lawn and growing a few things in pots until we have more time to spare. We have two acres in all and sectioned some of the land into three building plots, one of which we have already sold. When we first bought the house, we had all sorts of plans for the land but, having lived here for a while now, we just know it's too much to cope with. Land is not an issue here (probably the same in Australia?) so lots of old houses have acres and acres. We didn't realise how much we had until we had signed the sale papers - we found that, besides the farmhouse and several outbuildings, we also own the road, some chicken coops and half a barn on the other side! Far too much for a couple in their fifties to use to its full! Selling off some of the land for building plots will reduce the acreage to a more manageable size, and bring in some much-needed funds for restoration. Some Brits here buy houses because they come with acres and acres of land (and at far lower prices than in the UK), which sounds idyllic but too much land can become a millstone rather than a pleasure - as you know, it still needs to be managed.

    Your place looks wonderful - you obviously work very hard on it but also enjoy it to the full.

  14. We live on three acres, and it's quite "manicured", and therefore needs fairly regular mowing and gardening (ornamental, too). We have an orchard or various fruit trees, and at this, stage, don't find the size too much. In fact, we also own a ten acre block, which we will eventually move to. It is my belief that our ten acre block will be easier in many ways to manage than our three acres here, as there are horses on the larger block, which mean that we have never had the block slashed, etc. I like to think (and could be wrong down the track) that we can section areas off for use, and enjoy the unused areas, in that they contribute to our privacy from neighbours being too close. (Plus, the ten acre block has been an exceptional financial investment, as it is now worth significantly more than what we paid for it.)
    Tracy (Brisbane)

  15. My husband and I are 49 and 43, with two children aged 10 and 12, and have been living on our 5 acres for 7 years. We have a large orchard, a vegie garden, a vineyard and devote about 2 acres to sheep. Between the two of us, we find we can manage the acreage quite well, given we both work (him F/t, me p/t), and have time for activities with the kids and other interests as well.
    I really think that the question of whether to go for bigger or smaller acreage really is a question of your personality. My first observation is that to live successfully on 5 acres, you have to really love being outdoors, and gardening! If you do, working 5 acres is a pleasure. If you don't love gardening, 5 acres would be an albatross.
    It also helps to be a bit laid-back, and not a perfectionist. On five acres, there is always work to be done. If you like ticked off to-do lists, don't get five acres. While we devote quite a lot of time to our acreage, we don't set impossibly high standards for ourselves. Our garden isn't always perfect, and we're fine with that.
    As to the suitability of 5 acres as you age, many of our neighbours are retirees who have been working their acreage well into their seventies. They are all fit and healthy to my knowledge (I wonder if there is a link there?)
    My parents are on 5 acres at the ages of 65 and 70, and have no plans to move. Most of their property is given over horses, with about an acre that they "use". A lot depends on how you use your acreage.
    I endorse Rhonda's comments regarding proximity to services. We live about 10 minutes from a major regional town, so services and our workplaces and schools aren't far. I don't think we would be able to cope if we were out in the boondocks and had to travel far to access services.
    Our acreage and what we do with it is a great source of contentment, achievement, and yes, pride for us. We are never, ever bored, and it is a great source of interest and learning. It's been a great place to raise our children.
    Working five acres can be a challenge, but if it strikes you as an exciting challenge, I'm sure you will rise to it and I'm sure you'll never regret it.

  16. That was very interesting and instructive. If you want to, would you post a picture of your wild front yard sometime? It sounds intriguing!

  17. Thank you for todays post it has given me a lot to think about.

  18. Hi Rhonda,

    I agree with so many of the comments on your post. We have just under 4 acres of land and we are in our 30's with 2 young children. In fact over the last 2 days we have completely ripped out our old veg garden (well it was 12 months old LOL) and are making it more "user" friendly. It is a lot of work especially with 2 young children but they also love helping us out. We have divided up land into about an acre of house/gardens/orchard/veges and the rest we leave for the local kangaroos and ducks to roam (and mow the grass for us). It is a lot of work but it is also a lifestyle choice and I so agree that you need good neighbours (even on space). We live 10min out of a major country town which has a regional hospital with most facilities, my childrens school is literally a 5 min drive away and the local veg farm is less than a 10 min drive when the garden isn't doing what I want it to ;-). You do need to make your land manageable though and ours is relatively flat and our house has no stairs so I know we will be able to remain here for quite some time.

    I also have John Seymours book and it is fantastic. It does take time on acreage to maintain everything and I agree with another of your comments by Paola in that you don't want to be a perfectionist. We maintain our property well but sometimes we just can't get around to everything on "my" to-do list and sometimes some things just have to take a back seat for a while.

    Glad to have you back Rhonda.


  19. Rhonda,

    We are now in our 40's and we only have 1 acre and it is plenty for us too! I use to think I wanted 5 or more..and I am not sure if we could even handle all that now:)

    My husband still works and I am a stay at home mom with two teenage daughters. I hope we get to live in our current home for many years...we are now having the yard finally the way we wanted takes time to make a house a home:)


  20. 1 acre ... I always wondered how big your lot was, Rhonda. =)

    THANK YOU for being such an inspiration to me!!!! Every morning (after I clean up the kitchen, of course =)), I check in to Bloglines to see what bits of "compost for the soul" you left for me to read.


  21. My husband and I bought our block, just over 1000 square metres..? (Dont know how else to measure it)14 years ago. We were in our late 20's. We both grew up on large blocks, with vegie gardens and chooks etc and couldnt imagine our children of the future at that point, not growing up with room to run.......we are so glad we found our home, and land. It is a rare piece of paradise in the SA suburb that we live......and getting rarer every year.....we have ample room for grass room for riding bikes, and sandpits, cubbie house, vegetables beds, and chooks down the back, we have a large shed/garage, and garden shed at the bottom of the yard..and we have two large rainwater tanks to be installed.
    I guess my message is, we bought this home, for the land....the house was not 100% what we were looking for at the time, and is small, but what the children lack in room inside we make up ten fold outside.......just as it should be...lovely to see you back Rhonda, I did so miss your writings..Suzanne, EnchantedMoments.

  22. We originally bought our 8 acres when we were looking to build a house near where we were working then. It includes some woods, and a creek, and we estimate we mow about 3 acres with a small tractor. I'm now commuting, but hubby still works nearby.

    Your reader doesn't say what the 5 acres is currently. When we bought ours, the open area was cornfield. If you're willing to mow with a small tractor, maintaining it is not a huge headache, and it does keep the neighbors at a distance. We've also planted some bands of trees to act as screens, including one across the back that started as surplus pine seedlings from a friend who got them from the agricultural department for his farm. They're huge now, and the owner behind us wanted to buy that strip of land to protect HIS property! - but we didn't sell.

    I've actually got my eye on a smaller house in the village at this point, but we're still fairly confident of our ability to manage this property including the house and immediately surrounding grounds (we're 58 and 61). When we first moved out there and didn't have the tractor, we had someone else mow the larger part of it, and we could do that again if need be.

    I like the idea of buying the 5 and selling part, if zoning allows. You could also buy the 5, treat most of it as investment, and build up the 1 or 2 acres around where you'd site a house, then allow the rest to appreciate and sell it.

  23. Good advice. We live in a small house on a small plot of land and at times have been tempted to buy something larger.

    We are in our late 40s and will most likely stay put, however this year we are expanding the garden and this is something I am comfortable doing. Should it become too much in the future we can reduce its size and plant bushes or seed grass in its place.

  24. What wonderful, well-thought out advice you gave, Rhonda! I want to second your recommendation for John Seymour's book. I own many books on self-sufficiency, and his is the best by far.

  25. Rhonda Jean! I am so glad your back!! I MADE myself stop looking everyday to see if you were here and then I couldn't take it any longer! This morning...I thought, won't hurt to peek! And I have now sufficiently gorged myself on the weeks worth of posts I missed! LOL Your writing helps me to stay focused as well. The like mindedness of the readers and their comments keeps us all focused and satisfied with our choices. I missed you and am so glad you have returned to write. Love, Cathy in Florida

  26. My husband and I bought our 5 acres 8 years ago. We have 2 acres sectioned/fenced off in the front for our house and yard-our grandchildren and all other children that visit think it is absolute heaven to run wild and free! Then we have a quarter acre for vegetable garden and the rest is pasture for cows. Works well. The animals keep the pasture down so not much mowing takes place back there. I bought my husband a nice John Deere so he doesn't complain much about the mowing! : ) We have talked about our old age. We try to keep things simple in the yard and fenced in spaces and will continue to do so as we age. I am 48 now. He is 10 years younger. We hope to stay here the rest of our lives.

  27. I just wanted to say I really enjoyed the post today. As to the woman who was wondering about the 5 acres, I am 35 & husband is 36. We live on 3 acres. As far as the mowing goes we have a riding lawn mower and it still takes a while just to mow. That is not including the weed cutting & trimming of bushes, etc. We are looking into a small tractor to keep up with it easier but they are expensive. Personally, I'd love a huge farm, but in reality my 3 acres,family, animals, & garden keep me pleanty busy. I'm not saying to not get the 5, but I'd plan it out real well and take the maintence into great consideration as it seems you are. We've been considering fencing about an acre in the back part to keep a couple of goats or possibly a cow. That would keep some of the mowing down as well as provide meat or milk. Best wishes with whatever you decide.

  28. I loved reading this post. When we moved here we had every intention of moving on . My mum-in-law lived here till she passed away, and we lived up the hill in the other mobile home. What a change going from a house to a mobile home! When she passed we moved to hers, the economy went sour, so we decided to do what needed to be done in case we are here in our 70s. My husband's brothers have the lots on either side of us, but do not live here so it is almost like 8 acres of our own. We help maintain their side too. It is a lot of work, we are both in our 50s, and we do have the aches and pains!!! So it was interesting to see how you did everything. I so enjoy reading your posts, I have not had much time for anything. Being as I am also a "Domestic Engineer" it seems everyone wants me!! Thanks again, and now I am off to see how you make homemade laundry soap. We have a well too, so I hope that will be ok.

  29. Your back yard and garden look so tidy! Maybe ours will too if we ever get past the point of the children having toys out there.

  30. Your timing on this post is perfect. My hubby and I are now thinking about moving again. Our son is planning on moving out this summer and we want to be able to do the things that you write about every day.

    The land and property we have now is not where we want to be in our retirement and we have started looking for the home of our dreams. I will find it.
    ---Krystal (nova scotia)

  31. What a timely post! My husband and I can retire... even though it may be a few years off still.
    We have 1/2 acre, and it sometimes seems like it's not enough land. When I think about getting older, or one of us trying to work it alone, it seems like too much.
    I agree whole-heartedly about finding family areas. Our home is just about 3000 square feet, and sometimes it feels like we don't have quite enough room for everybody. We sure are giving a lot of thought as to if this is our forever house. Thanks for you insights:)
    Have a great day!

  32. Hi,love your Blog. Good for you to have a break but it is so good to have you back again.
    I live in CT, USA I have also lived in Maine USA but I have never heard of a "bush-house". In one of your up coming blogs could you explain what is? Thank You

  33. Thanks Rhonda for the wonderful post.Very helpful and encouraging.The readers comments were exciting too ,glad to learn from their experinces.I feel happy that we can make an informed decision now and the next chapter of our lives will be wonderful,made to measure.Thanks all Linda,glad to be part of a great blog!

  34. So glad you're back Rhonda. Yours is the first one I read every morning. It's inspiring and full of good information. Please tell me the reason for the pots on top of the posts in the garden. I like the look and love your garden pictures.

  35. Nice post Rhonda

    A similar thing was in our minds regarding finding a small place with a big outdoor space.

    But the outdoor space was going to provide us with income through field rentals for wannabe smallholders who don't have the space and maybe putting a stable block up for local horse enthusiasts.

    I don't want our property to be a financial drain. I'd like it to support us in our old age.

  36. My husband and I left the big city and took on our two acres when I was 46 and he was 48. One of the reasons we liked the idea is that we thought the heavy outdoor work would keep us fit as we age. I read recently that fitness in your 50's is an excellent predictor of a long life. Land to till, animals to tend, rocks to move, weeds to weed, and grass to mow make it all possible.

  37. We are selling a beach house, 4+ beds, 4 toilet/shower, double garage beach house, you get the picture, to buy Rhonda's house!

    Serioualy, gardeners know you can produce all the veggies you need from a small plot. (Most of us plant too much). Two people can't eat all the eggs from two chooks and unless you want an orchard, a quarter acre block is plenty unless you get a rooster, then you need to live west of Woop-Woop!

  38. I think about this sometimes. We would love to live in the country, but the schools aren't the greatest and with a child with problems, we have to have good schools to provide his support. So we stay put in town on a 3/4 acre plot. We are doing everything we can but sometimes dream of moving to the country when the kids have grown (15 years or so!) But then I think we would be too old. So basically I am right there with you and have no idea what we will do when the time comes.

  39. Just want to say, that 'wild' land are not that bad. If there are many different plants blooming, the insects are happy -and so are we. In germany there's less living space for f.e. honeybees.
    So, if I got more land I'm able to 'handle', I left it to the bees ...


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